Third Annual BF betleH Tournament

M`rek

Junior Member

batlh nur je

Posts: 75

Re: For next year:
« Reply #15 on: Feb 16^th, 2005, 12:44am »

Yeh. I chose to have my character fight with Honor, even though knew skill level wasn't real high for winning. To lose in Honor I think is better than to win in dishonor. I enjoyed the battle with K'vok anyways ans even though lost he didn't lose easily ;D hehe

He fought until he became unconscious lol.

No point was making is that as much fun is either way didn't like feeling at a lose to what I was setting my character's skill for. I knew in mind what his skill was but not what he was compare to them characters.

The Honor modifyer was simple to understand. had Know what Honor is know what fighting ugly ment. Didn't know how high skill Kahless or Martok supposed to have. Was just a guess.

Just think next year should make clearer scale to go by. Kahless skill, Martok's skill. Could of been any strength of skill wiothout knowing how far that scale went.

Not to mention not everyone would know much about these characters.

Back to top

M'Rek
mangHom
weHwI'
Of IKS meH'Haj

(The Hirogen/Klingon Warrior)

Also Play:
Kral Sogh
Head of the House of Mok
XO
IKS D'bloq

IP Logged

Ta`pez HoD Senior Member For the Glory of the House of Chang! Posts: 369 Gender:	Re: For next year: « Reply #16 on: Feb 16^th, 2005, 1:00am » afte winning twice Ta'pez will win one more time before retirining from the tournament. from there he will direct and teach others how to fight as the new joH
Back to top	Ta'pez HoD CO IKS meH'Haj TGCO beta -TF44 Graymist IP Logged

FADM Tomas Wolfe

YaBB Newbies

I love YaBB 1G -
SP1!

Posts: 23
Gender: male

Re: For next year:
« Reply #17 on: Feb 16^th, 2005, 8:00am »

Here's a suggestion.

Keep the same honor modifiers as you currently use. Yeah, someone who's fighting dirty normally does gain an advantage in a fight... but can they overcome the skill of the other fighter?

And I like the idea of there being a penalty for fighting dirty. If someone fights dirty (can't remember the exact title), they get +1... but they should also have a 5% chance of getting disqualified... simply rolling a D20 and if it ends up as a 1 (or 20) would mean he got caught. Very dirty would be 10%, meaing it would be rolling a 1 or 2 on a D20.

I also like the idea of it accumulating, to a point. Yeah, if so and so fought dirty and won, his opponent might go to the judges about it, and they might be on the look out a bit more the next time around. But I wouldn't go any higher then 25 or 30 % (a die roll of 1-4 on D20).

But let's flip the script as well. Fighting with honor limits you some what, but let's add in a bit of luck for fighting from a balanced mindset. Maybe, since your fightiong with a pure heart, there's a chance you get lucky and spot an opening from your opponent trying to fight dirty.

If you fought with honor and get the -1 modifier, you also have a 5% chance to score a automatic "kill". Not sure how you want to word it, so that's why I said kill.

That could be done the same was, use a D20 and roll a 1, and your character spotted an opening and disarmed/bloodied/knocked out/killed the opponent, regardless of the end skill result.

If you fight very honorable, it would be 10%, D20 roll of 1 or 2.

Adding it up over the tournament... I would go with putting a cap of 30% at most on it... maybe just 25%.

If we went with these rules, then say someone who was 5 or 6 skill points lower then their opponent might end up losing according to the die, but since they fought with honor, they just might get "lucky" to spot that opening to get that win. A 5 or 10% chance isn't much really. Likewise, if their opponent fought very dirty, they might of been caught as well, and lost in disgrace... would of been disqualified if they had won.

Back to top

FAdm Tomas Wolfe
CO, USS Wildcat
XO, 4th Fleet codenamed: Bravo Fleet

IP Logged

Ing The Puny

Junior Member

Don't make me go all
tribble pointy on
your butt!

Posts: 91
Gender: male

Re: For next year:
« Reply #18 on: Feb 16^th, 2005, 3:29pm »

Fighting with honor means beating your opponent through skill rather than luck.

That is the whole point of not taking advantage of any 'lucky breaks' that come your way. On the other hand, fighting dishonorably means siezing every opportunity, even those that were created through random chance, rather than those you create through being a superior fighter.

I would say that the biggest disadvantage to fighting dishonorably would be to motivate your future opponents to want to eliminate you from the tournament, to remove the stain your dishonor is placing on the competition. The crowd will cheer on an honorable fighter over a dishonorable one, giving the honorable warrior an edge in... well, you can call it 'spirit' or 'karma' or just say it's purely psychological, but it is a definite edge.

So perhaps give each fighter a 'spirit bonus' (or penalty) equal to somewhere between 1/5 and 1/10 their total accumulated honor during the tournament so far. So the longer you go fighting dishonorably, the worse youse 'spirit' becomes, but the longer you go fighting honorably the better it becomes. This would also provide disincentive for 'fight same as opponent', because you wouldn't know what the consequences of doing so would do to your accumulated spirit bonus.

I should also mention that I like 2 dice per fighter better than 1 die per fighter, because (assuming similar overall ranges) the bell curve on 2 dice makes large upsets less likely, while the wider range on two dice makes bigger upsets possible. (Compare 1d10 to 2d6 here.)

To go along with dishonor allowing greater influence for luck to aid you, I like replacing the current honor modifiers and die roll with:
Very Honorable: 2d4 (avg 5)
Honorable: d4+d6 (avg 6)
Neutral: 2d6 (avg 7)
Dirty: d6+d8 (avg 8)
Very Dirty: 2d8 (avg 9)
You'll note that the difference in average scores between any two stances is identical to what it is under the current system. Dirty still gives a 3-point edge over Honorable.

This way, if both fighters choos Very Honorable, the match will likely be determined purely by skill - the variance on 2d4 is actually less than with 1d6. Bbut the dirtier you fight, the better your chances of getting lucky with a big die roll, although there is no guarantee it will help you at all, since you can still roll less than your opponent.

Back to top

Ing The Puny
Cadet/2, Klach D'Kel Brakt Academy
Science Officer, IKS Hegh'ta

IP Logged

gtrell Junior Member I love YaBB 1G - SP1! Posts: 76 Gender:	Re: For next year: « Reply #19 on: Feb 16^th, 2005, 5:15pm » Great Idea Ing! Thats sounds like a promising and fair way to work things out.
Back to top	CMD G'Trell James Marine Commander meHHaj IP Logged

TalVur

Junior Member

The Doc

Posts: 84
Gender: male

Re: For next year:
« Reply #20 on: Feb 16^th, 2005, 6:06pm »

Yeah, I do like the sound of the automatic wins or losses to roll with the honor, I like it all. Having people that care and want to improve something shows that this tournament is going to be around for some time. What I would like to see for next year is 64 unique entrants and the elimination of the first NPC round...Would be nice if we could do it...

Back to top

Lt. James Tal'Vur
Chief Medical Officer
USS Saturn NCC-28400

IP Logged

Ta`pez HoD

Senior Member

For the Glory of the
House of Chang!

Posts: 369
Gender: male

Re: For next year:
« Reply #21 on: Feb 16^th, 2005, 7:53pm »

i dont mind Ings idea about carma - but if we want to level the playing field we should make it all equal, because ulitmatly fighting dishonorably makes does give you and advantage but i agree carries risks

so the carma suggestion is good. but the challange and the reward is to play honorably. Otherwise we might as well just go to random wins

Back to top

Ta'pez HoD
CO IKS meH'Haj
TGCO beta -TF44 Graymist

IP Logged

FADM Tomas Wolfe

YaBB Newbies

I love YaBB 1G -
SP1!

Posts: 23
Gender: male

Re: For next year:
« Reply #22 on: Feb 17^th, 2005, 12:17am »

Okay... on my suggestion of giving a bonus for honorable and a risk to dirty... maybe I shouldn't of used the work "luck" per say.

It's all about how you word it, but in normal RPGing, most weapons give you the chance to score a critical hit... well, maybe in our circle, fighting honorable would allow you to score a critical hit... a win despite the overall skill scores, for fighting honorable....

Back to top

FAdm Tomas Wolfe
CO, USS Wildcat
XO, 4th Fleet codenamed: Bravo Fleet

IP Logged

Ing The Puny

Junior Member

Don't make me go all
tribble pointy on
your butt!

Posts: 91
Gender: male

Re: For next year:
« Reply #23 on: Feb 18^th, 2005, 1:02am »

After seeing some of the issues around the posts for the fights that have come up, I think it would be a good idea to have a "Work on Fight JPs Here" section, where fighters were specifically directed to work together on the JPs for their fights.

Everything posted there would be unofficial, until the fighters both posted their seal of approval on it, at which time it would be moved into the appropriate time slot for everyone else to read.

In addition to heading off some of the issues we're currently experiencing, it would also give people a better chance to write their fights in advance.

As an additional idea, you could set that area so only the judges could start threads, and for each fight, the judge could start the thread with the post about who's supposed to win and what the honor modifiers were. That would also help settle arguments about people writing their honor settings appropriately in character or not.

Back to top

Ing The Puny
Cadet/2, Klach D'Kel Brakt Academy
Science Officer, IKS Hegh'ta

IP Logged

Ta`pez HoD Senior Member For the Glory of the House of Chang! Posts: 369 Gender:	Re: For next year: « Reply #24 on: Feb 18^th, 2005, 1:25pm » that would be good IF the judges were online as much as they should be - while i am not saying that the judges are slacking (they are not) - they alreay have a heavy load. What the people should do is make sure that they post or otherwise loose the match.
Back to top	Ta'pez HoD CO IKS meH'Haj TGCO beta -TF44 Graymist IP Logged

K`Hare totlh

YaBB Administrator

Another keg of
Bloodwine is
waiting.

Posts: 390
Gender: male

Re: For next year:
« Reply #25 on: Feb 18^th, 2005, 2:02pm »

There was a concious decision not to specifically post the die rolls and the honor choices of each combatant. We also try to give each pair time to do their post before the results are known. This way, the post of who won can be read with a little more drama.

I am still mulling over the idea that fighting with honor can give you an auto win. I like the feel of the judges catching you cheating and someone can use an illegal move and get away with it. We saw that in the Worf episode, Parallels. But I am not sure I like the feel of someone with a very low skill beating someone with a very high skill because of a critical. Once we go there we have to think about a much better skill system so we can have a high skill affect the chance of critical and it just gets more and more complex.

One thing I have thought about is modifying the system so that young characters can't have better than a certain skill. The down side to that is that K'rahl, Ta'pez, and K'Hare are all close to as high as they can get and their ae will knock there skill down. Maybe that's a good thing. I don't think any PC in BF should be a Dahar master unless they've had a really high rank and are really experienced character. You can always come up with a story as to why it would happen. We get the sense that Worf is better than Martok and yet both were impressed that qor did what he did in "Once More Unto the Breech".

Back to top

[glow=red,2,100]
K'Hare totlh
yaS mochwI', Klach D'kel Brakt
TFXO TF86
[/glow]

IP Logged

Ing The Puny

Junior Member

Don't make me go all
tribble pointy on
your butt!

Posts: 91
Gender: male

Re: For next year:
« Reply #26 on: Feb 18^th, 2005, 2:19pm »

People are going to want to be able to set their honor modifiers and have their characters react based on the honor with which someone fights. If people don't post their character's actions to accurately reflect their honor stance chosen for the fight, then this becomes impossible. Posting the actually selected honor stance will make the role-playing consequences of fighting dirty be much better tied to the selected honor stances.

Back to top

Ing The Puny
Cadet/2, Klach D'Kel Brakt Academy
Science Officer, IKS Hegh'ta

IP Logged

Q`olavraH

Junior Member

bImejDI' reH
betleHlIj yItlhap

Posts: 77
Gender: female

Re: For next year:
« Reply #27 on: Feb 18^th, 2005, 4:29pm »

I always ask the person what honor stance they fought with before we even start the post.

If I do not think they are writing to accurately reflect that they fought dirty or they try to 'get away with' not fighting as dirty as they chose to it ticks me off major.

Anyone who knows me, knows why it ticks me off.

I just think it is common courtesy for the players to tell each other what honor they chose before they start writing the post.

Back to top

Q'olavraH Sogh la'

IP Logged

Ta`pez HoD

Senior Member

For the Glory of the
House of Chang!

Posts: 369
Gender: male

Re: For next year:
« Reply #28 on: Feb 20^th, 2005, 4:56pm »

Quote from Q`olavraH on Feb 18^th, 2005, 4:29pm:

I always ask the person what honor stance they fought with before we even start the post.

If I do not think they are writing to accurately reflect that they fought dirty or they try to 'get away with' not fighting as dirty as they chose to it ticks me off major.

Anyone who knows me, knows why it ticks me off.

I just think it is common courtesy for the players to tell each other what honor they chose before they start writing the post.

i completly agree with this stance. The judges should make sure this occurs

Back to top

Ta'pez HoD
CO IKS meH'Haj
TGCO beta -TF44 Graymist

IP Logged

Falco_Tauvits

Junior Member

BlueMan

Posts: 95

Re: For next year:
« Reply #29 on: Feb 20^th, 2005, 5:04pm »

And if you're struggling, go for things like kicking sand in the eyes, kicking in the shins (general kicking is a good start), tripping your opponent up if you have the chance... anything which would deviate from the strictest of rules.

Fighting honourably is harder to portray. It's things like letting your opponent get back up again if they fall over, trying to beat them in a fair fight rather than take advantage of an opportunity which arose by chance or clumsiness trying to grab a victory from personal skill.

Back to top

Captain Falco Tauvits
Master of the SS Theseus
Mercenary for Hire

IP Logged

	Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register. Nov 1^st, 2024, 1:19am Hosted by Xavier Fleet Yards Competition website Last 10 posts