Third Annual BF betleH Tournament - ta'pez/tal'vur scanning thing

K`Hare totlh

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ta'pez/tal'vur scanning thing
« on: Feb 24^th, 2005, 2:33am »

OFF:

tal'vur vs. ta'pez - the scanning

I was asked my opinion on this.

First, in the end, the actions of security are valren's decision... it is his base. So if they get involved, he will have to decide what is done.

Second: this is an interesting way for tal'vur to show he is fighting dirty... I would not have expected it. One has to assume he is doing this covertly. But also, as the post noted, his hardware beeped. That could draw attention. If that's the only advantage it gave, that was clever. Of course, this could be used for role playing later... and without ta'pez's permission, it is questionable.

Third: Getting emotional around a half betazed is not the wisest course of action. This in itself could very well alert him. Tal'vur's emotions could be blocked by the crowds or they could be odd enough, and close enough since he is right behind ta'pez, to give him away.

Fourth: With the death of the first lord of Chang ta'pez is the House's de facto first lord. He would have guards watching him and those around him. Not to prevent someone from attacking him, but to prevent someone from attacking dishonorably. Waving any small humming device would get their attention. From their point of view, ta'pez is the POTUS and you just did something hinky by him. I don't see them waiting to react.

So I think I'd have to side with PEZhead here. His security would notice and react. valren can comment on the station security. Maybe they wouldn't notice this because its not affecting the ring, maybe they would. I will wait for him to comment on that.

K'rahl, if someone covertly waved a blinking device at you, how would the maidens (which you had to leave behind) react, even in a crowd?

Again, in the end it is valrens base so his final call but at the very least, my opinion as a player is tapezs security would notice.

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« Last Edit: Feb 25^th, 2005, 10:25am by K`Hare totlh »

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Valren Arelwynn, XFY CO

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Re: Kieran VS Q'olavraH
« Reply #1 on: Feb 24^th, 2005, 8:59am »

OFF:

I agree, there seems to be no reason why Ta'pez's folks would not notice this as they would be watching him like a hawk. However, if these folks are armed, then security will be in turn trailiing them.

So, I would say the following:
a) Ta'pez guards will now be trailing Tal'Vur
b) if the guards attack/assault/interfere with Tal'Vur, the guards will be stunned by security and locked in the brig

Now, if 'b' comes to pass, we have a very interesting situation. If the Chang guards were to tell security that Tal'Vur was doing something fishy, he would also be locked up pending an investigation and would thus forfeit his next match. But would the Chang guards want to involve the Federation in this? Probably not, that would be up to Ta'pez I suppose.

So, as it stands right now, Tal'Vur is being trailed by Chang agents who are in turn being trailed by XFY agents.

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K`rahl

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Re: Kieran VS Q'olavraH
« Reply #2 on: Feb 24^th, 2005, 12:27pm »

Off

Quote from K`Hare totlh on Feb 24^th, 2005, 2:33am:

K'rahl, if someone covertly waved a blinking device at you, how would the maidens (which you had to leave behind) react, even in a crowd?

Chances are, giving that I had 4 with me, two would place themselves between us and the other two would subdue him. Even in this crowd and without K'rahl having any form of jurisdiction.

You can of course assume that all three of my cousins that are here are watching me closely. No security was mentioned for Kur'rk, who is senior to me, but you can bet he has two or three warriors watching him too. Of course Kur'rk has no Shieldmaidens.

I agree Pez was right to post some of his boys seeing this. Still... I like the post, even if it means I'd not like the character if I knew his practices.

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K'rahl Son of Kur'rk
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Ta`pez HoD Senior Member For the Glory of the House of Chang! Posts: 369 Gender:	Re: Kieran VS Q'olavraH « Reply #3 on: Feb 24^th, 2005, 12:36pm » these ooc replies should be spliced with a link to here into a new thread. i will send Talvur a JP outline and we ll take it from there
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Ta`pez HoD

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Re: Kieran VS Q'olavraH
« Reply #4 on: Feb 24^th, 2005, 12:53pm »

Quote from Valren Arelwynn, XFY CO on Feb 24^th, 2005, 8:59am:

OFF:

I agree, there seems to be no reason why Ta'pez's folks would not notice this as they would be watching him like a hawk. However, if these folks are armed, then security will be in turn trailiing them.

So, I would say the following:
a) Ta'pez guards will now be trailing Tal'Vur
b) if the guards attack/assault/interfere with Tal'Vur, the guards will be stunned by security and locked in the brig

Now, if 'b' comes to pass, we have a very interesting situation. If the Chang guards were to tell security that Tal'Vur was doing something fishy, he would also be locked up pending an investigation and would thus forfeit his next match. But would the Chang guards want to involve the Federation in this? Probably not, that would be up to Ta'pez I suppose.

So, as it stands right now, Tal'Vur is being trailed by Chang agents who are in turn being trailed by XFY agents.

i seek clarification on this - the security wouldnt know of this until the klingons were to move - unless the XFY CO is admiting that he is shadowing all the klingons with heavy security teams.

i am protesting that any character be given access to this data.

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K`rahl

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Re: Kieran VS Q'olavraH
« Reply #5 on: Feb 24^th, 2005, 1:05pm »

Quote from Ta`pez HoD on Feb 24^th, 2005, 12:53pm:

i seek clarification on this - the security wouldnt know of this until the klingons were to move - unless the XFY CO is admiting that he is shadowing all the klingons with heavy security teams.

i am protesting that any character be given access to this data.

All armed Klingons are being followed, its clearly stated elsewhere on the Forum.

I agree though, the OOCs need splitting from this thread in respect to the combatants.

Oh wait... all armed Klingons... maybe Ta'pez himself is not being followed then...

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K'rahl Son of Kur'rk
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Ta`pez HoD Senior Member For the Glory of the House of Chang! Posts: 369 Gender:	Re: Kieran VS Q'olavraH « Reply #6 on: Feb 24^th, 2005, 1:26pm » the klingons would not be armed safe for the their dagger which is part of uniform
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Valren Arelwynn, XFY CO

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Re: Kieran VS Q'olavraH
« Reply #7 on: Feb 24^th, 2005, 1:28pm »

OFF:

Quote from Ta`pez HoD on Feb 24^th, 2005, 12:53pm:

i seek clarification on this - the security wouldnt know of this until the klingons were to move - unless the XFY CO is admiting that he is shadowing all the klingons with heavy security teams.

i am protesting that any character be given access to this data.

All Klingons with weapons yes. Please read the weapons law thread in the rules section: http://www.batlh.com/cgi-bin/betleHIII/YaBB.pl?board=genRules;action=display;num =1107854901

To which data do you refer? Standard information that could be found by any tricorder? People already have access to this data as Ta'pez would have been scanned when we was cleared through "customs" to get on the base for the tournament.

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Ta`pez HoD

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Re: Kieran VS Q'olavraH
« Reply #8 on: Feb 24^th, 2005, 1:30pm »

"people" - is this information readily available?

and further more who has access to it - i believe this would be on a need to know basis and the need to know here is not present.

edit: this is getting very complicated - if they were scanned how was K'Hares romulan ancestory not detected...i just think we are opening a can of worms here

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TalVur

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Re: Kieran VS Q'olavraH
« Reply #9 on: Feb 24^th, 2005, 3:22pm »

OOC: I'm picking us up and moving all this nonsense to Questions and Chat. http://www.batlh.com/cgi-bin/betleHIII/YaBB.pl?board=genChat;action=display;num= 1109276383;start=0#0

I'm assuming that K'hare will eventually move all of the OOC stuff there.

To Q'olavraH and O'Donnell, sorry to hijack your match with all of this.

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TalVur

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A place for the big OOC discussion
« Reply #10 on: Feb 24^th, 2005, 3:19pm »

Figured I'd move the conversation over to here, that way we aren't just adding more and more posts that K'Hare needs to move later.

http://www.batlh.com/cgi-bin/betleHIII/YaBB.pl?board=Day2fc;action=display;num=1 109128663;start=15

Anyways, I think that those scans, while thorough, were really only mean to verify the identity of the competitor and make sure they weren't stuffed with some sort of explosive or contraband. I think that is all that security would be looking at, though all the data would have been there.

On top of that, K'Hare is a judge and therefore a VIP. I would also like to think that he would be afforded some sort of leeway in the fact that the scan with him is really only a formality.

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Valren Arelwynn, XFY CO

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Re: A place for the big OOC discussion
« Reply #11 on: Feb 24^th, 2005, 4:08pm »

Tal'Vur makes a good point that K'Hare likely would not have had to go through security because he is a judge, but even if he had, there would be no more reason to stop him for it than there would have been for Ta'pez to be stopped because he is half betazoid or anyone else with a mixed heritage.

Ta'pez is right that the information is on a need to know basis - high up security, intel and command department people could access it - but my point was that unless we are talking about something that couldn't be detected by scanners then there is no reason why Tal'Vur couldn't have discovered it with his tricorder.

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K`Hare totlh

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Re: A place for the big OOC discussion
« Reply #12 on: Feb 24^th, 2005, 5:01pm »

Exactly what is it?

Everyone knows about ta'pez and K'Hare now, that is everyone knows their approximate heritage.

If either has a weird disease, is an augment, is a changeling... that isn't known unless tal'vur just discovered it with this scanning action.

I assume base security simply scanned for metals/energy (weapons), explosives, or bio hazards. If one had paid attention perhaps they would have noticed a variance in K'Hare's anatomy but there was no reason to look and no reason to take notice of it and certainly no reason to report it.

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Ta`pez HoD

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Re: A place for the big OOC discussion
« Reply #13 on: Feb 24^th, 2005, 5:10pm »

Quote from Valren Arelwynn, XFY CO on Feb 24^th, 2005, 4:08pm:

Tal'Vur makes a good point that K'Hare likely would not have had to go through security because he is a judge, but even if he had, there would be no more reason to stop him for it than there would have been for Ta'pez to be stopped because he is half betazoid or anyone else with a mixed heritage.

Ta'pez is right that the information is on a need to know basis - high up security, intel and command department people could access it - but my point was that unless we are talking about something that couldn't be detected by scanners then there is no reason why Tal'Vur couldn't have discovered it with his tricorder.

tahts why I would like to deny him that knowledge IC - or least make him work for it very hard

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K`Hare totlh YaBB Administrator Another keg of Bloodwine is waiting. Posts: 390 Gender:	Re: A place for the big OOC discussion « Reply #14 on: Feb 24^th, 2005, 5:38pm » Note that last year at least one character was stopped apparently randomly as he entered KDB. After he was checked out, he was allowed entrance. Tank, care to comment?
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